SYSTEM IV HELMET FAQ
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SYSTEM IV HELMET FAQ |
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![[System 4 image at BMW Germany site]](http://www.motorrad.bmw.de/erlebniswelt/images/erlebnis/fahreraustattung/systemhelme/systemhelme.gif) |
> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 22:35:10 -0700
> From: Joe Monenschein <moon@idcomm.com>
> Subject: BMW: System IV Helmets
>
> I'm sure this has been covered before but ...
[It has...could somebody please archive or FAQ this?]
> I've heard about BMW helmets and how they're unavailable in the states.
> I've also heard (and read in the recent copy of owner's news) that
there
> are sources for buying them anyway. I've heard about them not
being DOT
> approved and that BMW doesn't want to accept liability in this country
> etc. etc. My questions are:
>
> 1) Why aren't they DOT approved?
BMW AG, NA, and Schuberth (manufacturer)'s concern for possible
USA legal liability, in the event a System IV (or predecessor System
III)
wearer chose to sue if head-injured in an accident. Hence, manufacturer
chooses not to submit to DOT for testing/approval.
> 2) Are they approved by any organization?
ECE [European Community] R 22/04 standard
BSI [British Standards Institute] standard
Australian SAA standard [similar to DOT]
German OMK [motorsport commission] for use in competition
(Above information from System IV owner's manual)
> 3) Who are these evil black marketeers and how can I contact one?
They're not evil black marketeers. This is a 'personal grey market'.
You can direct order a System IV for personal shipment to the USA
from any authorized Euro BMW dealer who stocks them in the
size/color you want. Some Euro dealer websites are listed on
IBMWR's website dealer page [Brit dealers not expecting to
stock System IV 'till Spring '88]. All authorized Euro BMW dealers'
tel & fax numbers are listed in BMW Euro directory, BMW part
# 01 99 9 787 367.d, available on order from any US BMW car or
bike dealer. German (and probably other Continental) dealers have
them already. You can also buy over the counter in Europe and ship
or bring home in personal luggage.
Court Fisher
Princeton NJ
all the usual suspect acronyms
court.fisher@worldnet.att.net
Prezzes,
There's been some interest and a thread on how non-Euro riders can
order System 4 helmets, particularly in NA, where System 4 will not
be imported. As posted earlier, a System 4 can be ordered from
any German
or other Euro dealer who stocks or is willing to order the color/size
you
want (and who is willing to take the time to do overseas
mail/paperwork, etc.). Here's a specific option, received in
response
to my email query, from the Dortmund, Germany BMW dealer, Wüdo,
who is also a respected supplier of BMW aftermarket parts, and--to
my
knowledge at this time--the only German dealer with active website/
email access; they're also included on IBMWR's website dealer page.
----------forwarded post-----------------
>From: "Helmut Wüstenhöfer" <hw@wuedo.de>
>Reply-To: hw@wuedo.de
>To: court.fisher@worldnet.att.net
>Subject: Re: System IV helmets
>References: <346F7D48.72A4@worldnet.att.net>
>Organization: wüdo
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by news1.gtn.com
id
IAA12439
>Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 07:40:14 +0000
SNIP (original query)
> Hello,
>As we are an officiell BMW dealer, we can fill every orders of system
4
>helmets.
>We do keep most sizes and colors in stock.
>Prices white and red DM 606,96
>
antracite
DM 651,30
>
Yellow/grey DM 781,74
>shipping cots are about DM 80,00. You do not have to pay Mwst!
>Order by mentioning your cr card no as well as date of expire. We'll
>harry to send out to you
>Greetings
>Helmut Wüstenhöfer
>WÜDO BMW
------------------------end forwarded post-----------
For those without net access, or who prefer to transmit credit card
data only by fax/tel or hard-mail, here is Wuedo's full contact info:
Zweirad WUEDO BMW
Att: Helmut Wuestenhoefer
Deutsche Strasse 98-100, D-44339 Dortmund, Germany
Tel +49/231 850091, Fax +49/231 806087
email <hw@wuedo.de>, website (www.wuedo.de)
The obvious advantages of this ordering option are:
1) you can handle the entire transaction by email [if you're willing
to transmit your VISA/MC by email];
2) Wuedo's prices quoted above to NA customers (and, presumably,
to any non-EC shipping address outside Europe), is the 'net' German
retail price, that is, (-) minus the 15% German VAT (MwSt). Even
with an added DM 80 airmail cost, that means NA customers
can buy a System 4 delivered to your door for less than its
over-the-counter full retail in Germany. Of course, if you happen
to
be in Germany on a US or other non-EC passport, you can also get
a German VAT refund on your helmet purchase as you leave the
country, but that supposes you remember to ask the dealer for the
right papers, that he has them, and that you remember/have time to
find and go through the VAT refund office at the airport or border.
If Wuedo ships to non-EC addresses minus the 15% German VAT,
presumably any German dealer is able to do the same. However,
you may have to make a point of asking, since not all dealers will
necessarily do enough overseas business to be aware of this option,
have the necessary internal [German] tax paperwork in hand, etc.
Court Fisher
Princeton NJ
all the usual suspect acronyms
court.fisher@worldnet.att.net
Here's a little thingy I wrote for the Journal of The BMW Club in the British Isles:
The System 4 Helmet - An Initial Appraisal
I had intended to pick up a System 3 Evolution on my hols, but lo and
behold, the 4 was launched mid-September
(the dealer in Vienna had had them for just a week) so the search was
on for the colour I wanted in my (very small)
size. I finally tracked one down at Pevec, the dealer in Spandau,
just round the corner from the BMW factory.
This appraisal is based on 2,000 miles of mixed riding, including in
heavy rain and thick fog.
The Visor and Ventilation
Most importantly, BMW appear to have sorted the appalling visor problems
from which the 3 suffered. The (rigid)
visor no longer leaks, thanks to a flexible narrow rubber blade which
seals against the top edge when the visor is
closed. There is a raised edge on either side at the bottom of
the visor, so it can be opened easily with thick
gloves.
The misting problems have been significantly mitigated by a new ventilation
system. A small scoop can be opened
on the chinpiece, immediately below the visor, which connects to either
two slits inside which direct air straight up
on to the inner surface, or through an adjustable vent on to your face.
Because the visor is double-currvature it will
not be possible to fit a Fog City, but given the venting and non-leakiness,
the traditional coating of washing-up
liquid more than suffices. The only problem I found is that my
specs mist up instead. Ah well. I might add that
with the RT's screen in the fully-up position in thick fog, there was
no misting either inside or outside the visor.
No, I didn't believe it either, but it's true.
The detents for visor positioning work properly, so no more heart attacks
as the visor slams shut. There are major
detents for the fully-open and just-cracked-open positions, and minor
ones in between.
Scalp-cooling is dealt with by a sliding shutter over a vent immediately
above the visor with an exit point in the
shallow spoiler at the back of the helmet - much the same as before,
really.
The Front-Opening Mechanism
This has been much improved - there is now a single red bar under the
centre of the chinpiece, so the front can, at
last, be opened one-handed and when wering thick gloves. The
aerodynamics have also been sorted, so it's
possible to ride at up to 70 or 80 with the front up in total comfort
(I know it's probably illegal here, but not Over
There). The continental version can be converted to a jet-style
helmet, but the handbook states that the UK version
will have a different shell and will not be convertible. So what's
new. Does anyone one know what BSI's
problem is? Most people regard German standards as some of the
highest in the world, and this helmet is
approved by their racing authority as well; I find it hard to believe
that BSI standards are any higher.
The Fastening
As before, the continental fastening is of the seat-belt variety (good)
and the UK version will have the double
D-ring (not so good).
Noise
There isn't any. Well, not very much. With the RT screen
right up and the visor closed, I could hear my tappets
clearly at 3-lane autobahn speeds (the RT goes faster the BMW claim,
even when you correct of the 5% fast
speedo).
General
The helmet comes in the usual white, red or dark metallic grey, and
a version colour-matched to the K1200
yellow/grey chequerboard pattern is available. In Germany the
metallic grey is DM749 (about 270 pounds), and
the white and red a little cheaper. One assumes the UK version
will be at least 100 pounds more, and weigh more
- mine weighs 1580 grammes (about 3 and a half pounds). You also
get a bag in which to stash the lid, which helps
minimise abrasion when squeezing it into a pannier. I bet the
UK one comes without.
And here's the webb address for the URL link, but you might advise that
it
is best viewable with a "German Translator" browser Plug-in ;-)
http://www.motorrad.bmw.de/erlebniswelt/fahrerausstattung/helme.html
http://www.bike.bmw.com/english/w_of_encounter/rider-equipment/helmets.html
it's the english version of
http://www.motorrad.bmw.de/erlebniswelt/fahrerausstattung/helme.html
Lifted from http://www.accwhse.com/zshoei.htm
HAT INCH SHOEI SIZE AROUND CM /BELL ARAI BIEFFE AGV LAZER MONARCH VETTER VECTOR ====== ====== ==== ====== ====== ====== ====== ===== ======= ====== ====== 6-3/8 20-1/4 51 XXS ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- 6-1/2 20-1/2 52 XXS XS ----- ----- XS ----- ----- ----- 6-5/8 20-7/8 53 XS XS ----- XS XS ----- ----- ----- 6-3/4 21-1/4 54 XS/SM SM XS XS XS XS ----- XS 6-7/8 21-5/8 55 SM SM/MD SM SM SM XS XS XS 7 22 56 SM/MD MD SM SM SM SM XS SM 7-1/8 22-1/2 57 MD MD/LG MD SM/MD MD SM SM MD 7-1/4 22-7/8 58 MD/LG LG MD MD MD MD SM MD 7-3/8 23-1/4 59 LG LG/XL LG MD/LG LG MD MD LG 7-1/2 23-5/8 60 LG/XL XL LG LG LG LG MD XL 7-5/8 24 61 XL XL/XXL XL LG/XL XL LG LG XL 7-3/4 24-1/2 62 XL/XXL XXL XL XL XL XL LG ----- 7-7/8 24-7/8 63 XXL XXL XXL XXL XXL XL XL ----- 8 25-1/4 64 XXL XXXL ----- XXL XXL ----- ----- ----- 8-1/8 25-5/8 65 XXXL XXXL ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- 8-1/4 ------ 66 XXXL ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----To measure correct helmet size, measure around the head, like a headband, one
--------------------------------------------------
Barry Ferris
mailto:bferris@cisco.com
Santa Cruz, Ca.
After reading the list and following the helmet treads, I decided to put
my System 1 to rest and buy a new system 4. A few comments about buying
the helmet:
1) How did I buy it?
I read Court Fisher's review about buying a system 4 overseas. It is
posted on the BMW page at
http://www.ibmwr.org/
I purchased the helmet via Wuedo in Germany. Helmut runs a secure WEB
page that allows secure purchases from him.
Point your browser to http://www.wuedo.de/
2) How much did it cost?
With shipping, around $400. My card has not been charge yet.
3) How long did it take?
About 10 days after I placed my order via the WEB page. The paperwork
indicates it was shipped from Wuedo on 12/15. I received it on 12/22.
Editor's note: Brian lives in Indiana. Shipping time may vary depending on location.
4) Does it fit?
Yes, quite well. A little tight because of the 'cheek' pads.
(Something that my system 1 didn't have. ) I keep my hair short (okay I
going bald...) yet the fit was alittle tight but acceptable. If you are
blessed with a full head of hair, you might want to go up a size. I
feel that wearing the helmet will break it in to my profile.
5) Tell me about the features of the helmet.
The helmet has three vents for your use. Two are located in the chin to
allow fresh air to your face. The mouth vent is located inside the chin
piece that can be closed independently from the vent for the visor. A
third vent is directly forward of your forehead. There exists a small
fin on the back side of the helmet for the exit vents. One thing that I
noticed about the helmet was the clean lines (not external push buttons
since the opening latch is a single bar under the chin piece.). It
really is a beautiful design.
The chin piece contains a wind blocking shield that fits nicely under
your chin. The chin strap is seatbelt type of latch instead if the
'double D' rings. One review I read somewhere said the vesion that
will be sold in England will be the 'D' style.
The fit and finish of the helmet is typical BMW - perfect workmanship.
The helmet shipped with a protective bag and owners manual.
3) Any regrets ?
Only one, not tell my wife about it first BEFORE ordering it. Oh well,
everytime I see and speak BMW stuff for my GS, my brain disconnects and
I act on impulse. (I tried to explain that it was included with my BMW
- direct from the factory. She didn't buy that one...
It was surprisingly easy to buy from Helmut at Wuedo. I suggest you
visit his WEB page and drop Helmut a line. On his WEB page he has a
builtin email address for your use. The usually disclaimers apply, I'm
just a happy customer of Wuedo.
Fellow Presidents,
Below please find info about System 4 helmets that I just got from Wuedo!
The exchange rate is as of 1/13/98.
Cheers, Phactory Phil aka Phil Rose prose@draper.com
Editor's Note: Prices and especially exchanges are subject to change, of course!
For current exchange rate, see: World Currency Exchange
Prices for system 4 helmet:
white or red 606,96 DM =$333.50 antracithe metallic 651,30 DM =$357.85 yellow/grey "K12RS" 781,74 DM =$429.52
The sizes:
50/51 special order for you 52/53 all colors in stock 54/55 all colors in stock 56/57 all colors in stock 58/59 all colors in stock 60/61 all colors in stock 62/63 special order for you 64/65 special order for you
Helmet Bags:
cloth bag 16,35 DM =$ 8.98 nylon bag with lock 49,75 DM =$27.34
Decoration set:
orange, 12 parts 26,96 DM =$14.81 blue, 6 parts 30,43 DM =$16.71
Changing set enduro:
helmetshield 39,13 DM =$21.50 side parts 49,57 DM =$27.23
Visor and parts:
antifog mar resistant 85,22 DM =$46.82 (clear only, not tinted) Various cheek up holstery 55,65 DM =$30.57 Various neck up holstery 39,13 DM =$21.50 chin spoiler 38,26 DM =$21.02
The dispatch costs for a premium air mail will be 81,00 DM, as an economy air mail 52,00 DM for one helmet:
81,00 DM =$44.50
52,00 DM =$28.57
Spezial offer:
Baehr intercom from WÜDO Baehr intercom for build in the motorbike 764,35 DM =$419.97 Build in system 4 helmet, per helmet 89,00 DM =$48.90 Build in system 4 helmet for two helmets 178,00 DM =$97.80
EXCHANGE DM - $
$1.00 = 1.82DM as of 1/13/98
Please order your part by web site: WWW.WUEDO.DE Thank you very much.
We accept VISA, AMEX or MASTERCARD.
SNIP
>Don't forget one needs to pay a customs duty when importing
>[System IV] into the US -- the Postal Service will collect at your
>door if coming from a foreign company. This hasn't been
>addressed in the FAQ or Court's article in the latest ON.
>Fran Grodek
>Cleveland OH USA
>fran_lg@bigfoot.com
>(440) 926-2994
Fran,
Thanks for the reminder.
The US Customs duty on a System 4 can be estimated:
The duty tariff category is '6506.10.30 Motorcycle Helmets of reinforced or laminated plastics'. According to the US Customs Duty Assessment Office in New York City, the 1998 duty rate on this category is 1.8 cents per kg + 0.7% [that's 7/10ths of one percent] of commercial value, per helmet. Assuming a Sys 4 weighs 2-3kg (4.4-6.6 pounds), and assuming an invoiced/declared commercial value of US$400, total tariff would = 6 cents + $2.80 [$400 x 0.007], in other words, about $3.00 total in duty.
To this, the US Post Office can add a $5.00 fee for collecting the duty from you on behalf of US Customs.
In other words, _if_ your particular System 4 helmet shipment goes through the Customs process, (and not all do), you'll pay an extra $8-10.00 in duty & fees.
If anyone has experience different than this, please let us know.
best,
Court Fisher
Princeton NJ
all the usual suspect acronyms
court.fisher@worldnet.att.net
I have an update for the System IV Helmet FAQ Web Page.
I contacted the dealer in Germany (WUDO) that has supplied
the helmet to USA customers in the past.
They informed me that BMW will NOT allow them to ship the helmets to the
USA any longer.
Below is the text of the email:
> Dear Mr. Vance,
>
> thank you very much for your e-mail that we unfortunatly can´t
> reply as requested.
>
> BMW pointed out to us, that we are not allowed to deliver the
> system 4 helmet to the USA. We feel very sorry not being allowed to
> reply to your inquiry in the requested way.
>
> With pleasure we would like to deliver our WÜDO accessoires for BMW
> motorbikes to you and we would be happy, if you would like visiting
> our internet-pages: www.wuedo.de.
> There, you will get the latest informations about the available
> WÜDO accessoires for your BMW at any time.
>
> With best regards
>
> Christopher Salzmann
> WÜDO BMW
>
I just thought you might like to update the Web Page accordingly
Thanks.
Ted Vance
tvance@pangaea.ca
Prezzes,
For those in the US stymied by BMW AG's embargo of System 4 helmet shipments direct from Euro dealers, who (1) can't wait or won't be able to pick one up in Canada this Fall (since Canadian dealers will likely also be embargoed from US shipments), (2) can't travel to Europe or elsewhere overseas to buy one personally, (3) don't already have a friend in any legal venue to buy/ship one to you, and (4) don't want to wait for any still under-consideration change in BMW policy to allow US DOT approval and legal sale in the US, here's another offer to consider:
Hello;
I read in the BMW Owners News that [US riders] have problems laying their hands on the System 4 helmets. Now, here's help from your OMIN (Our Man In Norway):
As a service to fellow riders, I am willing to take orders for any size/any color (save the K12 checker-board, which is more expensive) System 4 helmet. As I am not a BMW dealer, I am not bound by whatever policy they have in this matter, and my local dealer will of course sell me all the helmets I want. For the same reason (my not being a dealer), I cannot make any special pricing arrangements, but will have to pay whatever the going price in Norway is - less sales tax, of course. Based on the prices I have got for the helmets I have provided for my tour members, we're talking about NOK 3500 net - or USD 467 at the current rate of 7,50. This amount includes a nominal fee to cover my direct expenses (like driving to the shop to pick up the helmet, and then taking it to the post office or whatever), but as I said: I do this as a favor to my fellow riders, and do not wish to make any money on it. For the same reason, I also ask people to be a little patient, as I may wait until I have orders for 4-5 helmets before I go about ordering and picking up and mailing (assuming there's an interest at all, of course..)
I can charge the purchase to your AmEx, Visa or MasterCard, and ship by mail or DHL at customers expense (best thing is of course to book a tour and come pick it up yourself!)
Any rebates I may get because of buying larger quantities (>1) will be passed on to the individual customer. Now, how's that for a deal?
OT
-------end forwarded message------
For those who might not know, O.T. Dovik founded Nordic Bike Adventures and organizes the Norwegian tours for Beach's Motorcycle Adventures. I will personally vouch for his honesty and integrity, but you'll need to contact him directly to make your own arrangement and, as he says, be a little patient.
For those who need more background on this issue, or help with sizing, etc., see the List file at www.ibmwr.org/otech/system4.html [Editor's note: Pssst! You're reading it now!]
And of course any US prez who wears a non-US DOT System 4 in the States must acknowledge that they assume all risk and responsibility for helmet use, and forever waive all rights to product liability suits against BMW by themselves, their heirs and assigns. [(^_^) That's a joke, but lies at the heart of why the corporation must continue to try to protect itself from even personal grey-market distribution to the litigious USA, unless/until BMW itself opts for DOT certification (^_^.]
best,
Court Fisher
Princeton NJ
all the usual suspect acronyms
court.fisher@worldnet.att.net
I was at the grand opening of Cross Country BMW last weekend and I overheard (from a pretty good source) that BMW will be making the system helmets availble in the US prolly around March. It seems that the reason that they have not been availble is of course due to the liability issues. >From what I understand the manufacturer Shurbert (sp) has found an insurance company that will cover their ass so to speak. The insurance will add about 50-60 DM to the price of each helmet. Projected US retail between $400-$500. What I heard was that the open face helmets will be the first to come. This will coinside with the release of the K12LT my guess is that BMW will make these helmets available with optional built in headsets for the optional intercom system on the K12LT. I guess they also want the wingers to be able to have color matched (to the bike) helmets. The full face system helmets will follow shortly there after.
Erik
I stopped by Bob's BMW a few days ago to drop the Airhead off for service, and saw Ed Robinson, BMWNA VP, and Dr. Ganal, THE man in charge of BMW motorcycle operations for the whole world (they were being escorted around the new facility by Bob Henig - which is under roof across the street and rapidly progressing). Dr. Ganal came to the US to speak to HD's CEO, and to visit a motorcycle-only dealer, as well as a multiline BMW retailer in the US. Bob's was chosen as the example of a dedicated US BMW motorcycle retailer. Dr. Ganal & Ed Robinson were throughly impressed and excited by the "professional team" at Bobs, which was in direct contrast to the visit to the multiline BMW shop (not identified) in Wisconsin. He was reportedly very displeased with his visit to the multiline shop and the attitude towards BMW presented there.
In any event, Dr. Ganal seemed to confirm what Bob had learned from Klaus Becker at the K1200LT introduction in Germany; that BMW will probably import one version of the System IV helmet to the US next year, color-matched to the K12LT. Bob didn't know if the helmets would be the modular style, or the open face design. As I've said before, if Bieffe can get DOT approval for their junk modular helmet, BMW certainly can.
Toodles,
Bill Shaw
Oak Hill, VA
Ted Verrill writes:
> For the K12LT, I bet they complete the Goldwing Hunt
> by offering an open-face version of the Sys 4 helmet pre-cut for whatever
> communications system they will be offering on the bike.
That's a pretty safe bet. Ed Robinson called today to congratulate us on reaching the 100 new bike sales level -- so far -- for the year, and he, Jeff, and I chatted about a number of issues. The helmets were one of the things he and Jeff discussed. My understanding is that Mr. Robinson pretty much confirmed what has been rumored for some time, that the new helmet pictured in the K12LT brochure will be coming in followed by the System IV.
--
Steve Anderson
Morton's BMW
Spotsylvania, Virginia
Art,
Thanks, that's very useful info for US folks that have had holding plate glitches.
Can you specify which Euro dealer told you they could ship these parts to US addresses?
If any US prez tries to order these parts from any Euro dealer (e.g., www.wuedo.de, or whomever), please let the list know if the dealer will in fact ship to the US.
Somebody might also inquire of Wolf BMW in Canada, www.wolfbmw.com, whether same parts are available from Canadian dealers, and can be shipped to the US.
Court Fisher
Trenton NJ
--
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:25:47 -0400
From:
Art Hechler <hechleraw@prodigy.net>
Subject: BMW: System IV parts
Just got back from Europe and now BMW is offering repair kits for the System IV side 'holding plate'
BMW Part # 72 60 7 653 714 is for the right side BMW Part # 72 60 7 653 713 is for the left side
Helmets manufactured before 7/98 will need to use the template provided in the kit to cut a hole in the helmet to get to the 13mm nut that holds the plate in place. Helmets manufactured after that date have a plastic plug under the liner that pops off to get to the 13mm nut.
Smoked visor for the IV is BMW # 72 60 2 342 594
In talking to the dealer, these parts can be shipped to the US without a problem, it's the helmets that can't be shipped.
Art Hechler
Newtown, CT
--
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:19:36 -0400 (EDT)
From:
Don Faichney <donf@nhb.com>
Subject: BMW: System IV parts
Art et all: You can get these parts in Canada, a friend of mine from PA got these same parts in Whitby ON from my dealer here. If anyone requires them let me know and I will get you the price and shipping should be no problem (you pay postage) remember the Canadian $ is at about .67 of a U.S.$.. You can buy the system 4 in Canada Eh!
The Kiltmeister
In balmy Downtown Port Hope
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